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  • #76
    That's a good question, but again, if FLL's interpretation is that it is considered a re-launch than it should be. The rules don't specify what a launch is exactly, that is why we have the debate in this thread about what a launch is and can you launch something that is already moving.

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    • #77
      FYI- I am trying hard to get them to stop with the touch so there is no question.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Belleview Robotics View Post
        That's a good question, but again, if FLL's interpretation is that it is considered a re-launch than it should be. The rules don't specify what a launch is exactly, that is why we have the debate in this thread about what a launch is and can you launch something that is already moving.
        Well, if you haven't done so already, I would follow up with something like "so you can re-launch a moving robot without actually stopping it first, is that correct?"

        I think the main value in contacting FLL about this is to alert them to questions that are coming up so that, hopefully, clarification will be made in future updates. Maybe we should all send an email.

        FLL Coach 2014 -

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Belleview Robotics View Post
          FYI- I am trying hard to get them to stop with the touch so there is no question.
          That's good. It seems like a wise course of action.

          The problem is that your question has shed light on what may be a much bigger issue. If the tap is allowed without then stopping and restarting the robot, then this means that the kids can, once the robot starts moving, manually guide it all the way to the LA perimeter using any type of interaction. If this is FLL's intent, then that is a huge change from previous seasons and I would be surprised that they didn't make a bigger point of this.

          FLL Coach 2014 -

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          • #80
            Originally posted by dreece1000 View Post
            the kids can, once the robot starts moving, manually guide it all the way to the LA perimeter using any type of interaction. If this is FLL's intent, then that is a huge change from previous seasons and I would be surprised that they didn't make a bigger point of this.
            IMHO this is a minor change since the kids have always been allowed to manually place the robot anywhere, right up to the LA perimeter. I don't see allowing a last moment adjustment as a having a significant impact on game strategy.

            To me, the greater significance is that a launch does not seem to require signaling the robot. IMHO this may have been the intent of the change. "Make it GO" might simply be a timer expiring rather than a sensor reading. I'm a big fan of this change.

            Finally, the most significant and perhaps unintentional change is the possibility of preloading a robot with kinetic energy. We have seen kids manually pump up pneumatic tanks and wind rubber bands before launch but if the "stationary" requirement is effectively gone then kids could spin up flywheels like China Speeders if that helped accomplish a mission.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Belleview Robotics View Post
              I am trying hard to get them to stop with the touch so there is no question.
              One of the non-technical things the students have to learn is risk management. In some cases, it is beneficial to push the rules since the risk and the magnitude of the consequences of a negative result is small. In other cases, it is better to stay clearly within the rules since the risk of a negative result and the magnitude of the consequences is large.

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              • #82
                I agree with what philso says. Unless there is a compelling reason to do so, avoid the risk of appearing to violate the rules.

                The problem with this topic right at this point in time, as I see it, is that if FLL has made it very clear that touching a moving robot does not require that it be stopped and restarted, and that manually guiding that robot up to the LA perimeter by hand or hand holding a jig is also now clearly allowed, then it's actually not a risk to do so.

                Teams that proceed under the assumption that the old rules still apply may find themselves at a strategic disadvantage compared to teams that understand the new rules and use it to their advantage. One can chastise the the former teams for not understanding the new rules correctly. However, given that so many coaches and referees on this thread identified the video examples earlier as situations that require stopping and restarting the robot, both in the past and also this season, leads me to think that this new leniency has not been clearly established.

                FLL Coach 2014 -

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                • #83
                  Problem is, it hasn’t been clearly established. It’s one person answering an email that said it wouldn’t be a problem. Question is, is he correct?

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Belleview Robotics View Post
                    Problem is, it hasn’t been clearly established. It’s one person answering an email that said it wouldn’t be a problem. Question is, is he correct?
                    Regardless of who sent the email, or whether they're "correct" (that's impossible to determine), it doesn't have the force of an official rule or update. And most referees do not read the Forums.

                    So it won't help your team in the slightest.
                    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                    • #85
                      Well it has always been said this is not a Robotics Competition. For a long time I believed I knew what that meant. I wish teams and refs the best. Later.

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